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	<title>Comments on: Proposed TFSA Changes</title>
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	<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm</link>
	<description>Building Wealth through Saving and Investing</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:36:23 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-107885</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-107885</guid>
		<description>I am interested in purchasing a real-estate investment property with my tfsa. The rules state land investments are not allowed,but what about co-operative condominiums. The building is owned by a trust and the owner only owns a share providing exclusive use of the property. Is that a way of gaming that rule legally? 

TFSA - $46,000 ish. I love 2009! My strategy was pretty high risk options investments but being under 30 I had the timeline to recoup losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am interested in purchasing a real-estate investment property with my tfsa. The rules state land investments are not allowed,but what about co-operative condominiums. The building is owned by a trust and the owner only owns a share providing exclusive use of the property. Is that a way of gaming that rule legally? </p>
<p>TFSA &#8211; $46,000 ish. I love 2009! My strategy was pretty high risk options investments but being under 30 I had the timeline to recoup losses.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-107155</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-107155</guid>
		<description>I have two TFSAs. One is with a financial institution and has some GIC&#039;s&gt; Some of the GICs which will mature in Jan/09. I want to take the cash from the maturing GICs and put it into the other TFSA which is with a discount broker. Does anyone see a problem?

Or will I have to wait until 2011 to reinvest the monies into the Discount Broker TFSA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have two TFSAs. One is with a financial institution and has some GIC&#8217;s&gt; Some of the GICs which will mature in Jan/09. I want to take the cash from the maturing GICs and put it into the other TFSA which is with a discount broker. Does anyone see a problem?</p>
<p>Or will I have to wait until 2011 to reinvest the monies into the Discount Broker TFSA?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Rempel</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106756</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Rempel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106756</guid>
		<description>Hi FT, James &amp; fillalph,

You are all on the right track. There is no problem with selling in a TFSA and buying the same investment in an RRSP, or the other way around.

The superficial loss rules kick in if you sell a non-registered investment at a loss and then buy the same investment within 30 days - either you or your spouse, even in an RRSP or TFSA. Then the capital loss on the non-registered investment is not allowed.

If you are only buying and selling in RRSPs or TFSA, and not claiming non-registered losses, then there is no problem.

Ed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi FT, James &amp; fillalph,</p>
<p>You are all on the right track. There is no problem with selling in a TFSA and buying the same investment in an RRSP, or the other way around.</p>
<p>The superficial loss rules kick in if you sell a non-registered investment at a loss and then buy the same investment within 30 days &#8211; either you or your spouse, even in an RRSP or TFSA. Then the capital loss on the non-registered investment is not allowed.</p>
<p>If you are only buying and selling in RRSPs or TFSA, and not claiming non-registered losses, then there is no problem.</p>
<p>Ed</p>
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		<title>By: Chet</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106745</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106745</guid>
		<description>When an investment is held within a registered account like an RRSP, it changes its character. Anything that happens within an RRSP stays within an RRSP until it is is withdrawn and then is treated like regular income without any preferential tax treatment and is added to all other incomes in the year of withdrawal. You can sell whatever you want within an RRSP without any tax consequences if you leave it there. However if you want to buy the same positions that you sold within the RRSP and then withdraw the cash from your RRSP, you would pay tax on the withdrawn amount.  You can always buy them back within your TFSA as well as long as you do not exceed your maximum contribution amount within the TFSA for the current year.  

Seems to me if you think that the positions you are selling should appreciate over time and still think that they are a good investment, you should consider buying them within your TFSA and not sell within your RRSP letting them appreciate. Assuming you have the capital.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When an investment is held within a registered account like an RRSP, it changes its character. Anything that happens within an RRSP stays within an RRSP until it is is withdrawn and then is treated like regular income without any preferential tax treatment and is added to all other incomes in the year of withdrawal. You can sell whatever you want within an RRSP without any tax consequences if you leave it there. However if you want to buy the same positions that you sold within the RRSP and then withdraw the cash from your RRSP, you would pay tax on the withdrawn amount.  You can always buy them back within your TFSA as well as long as you do not exceed your maximum contribution amount within the TFSA for the current year.  </p>
<p>Seems to me if you think that the positions you are selling should appreciate over time and still think that they are a good investment, you should consider buying them within your TFSA and not sell within your RRSP letting them appreciate. Assuming you have the capital.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: FrugalTrader</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106744</link>
		<dc:creator>FrugalTrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106744</guid>
		<description>I may be wrong, but my understanding is that superficial loss rules were created to eliminate people selling stock for a loss to claim the capital loss then rebuying it shortly afterward.  If a stock is held within an RRSP, there is no capital loss claimed, so it shouldn&#039;t matter.  Perhaps an accountant would be able to clarify?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be wrong, but my understanding is that superficial loss rules were created to eliminate people selling stock for a loss to claim the capital loss then rebuying it shortly afterward.  If a stock is held within an RRSP, there is no capital loss claimed, so it shouldn&#8217;t matter.  Perhaps an accountant would be able to clarify?</p>
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		<title>By: fillalph</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106743</link>
		<dc:creator>fillalph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106743</guid>
		<description>I am still learning, but don&#039;t you have to wait 30 days or it would be a superficial lost?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still learning, but don&#8217;t you have to wait 30 days or it would be a superficial lost?</p>
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		<title>By: FrugalTrader</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106742</link>
		<dc:creator>FrugalTrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106742</guid>
		<description>Hey James, I don&#039;t see why not as you cannot claim a capital loss from your RRSP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey James, I don&#8217;t see why not as you cannot claim a capital loss from your RRSP.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106713</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106713</guid>
		<description>rephrase

can I sell my RRSP stocks at a loss to the market and then buy the same stocks in my TFSA from the market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rephrase</p>
<p>can I sell my RRSP stocks at a loss to the market and then buy the same stocks in my TFSA from the market?</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106712</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106712</guid>
		<description>can I sell my RRSP stocks at a loss to the market and then buy the same RRSP&#039;s in my TFSA from the market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>can I sell my RRSP stocks at a loss to the market and then buy the same RRSP&#8217;s in my TFSA from the market?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Li</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106548</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106548</guid>
		<description>That’s kind of ironic. Finally government did something good for a financially average Canadian, but guess what, it didn’t survive for a long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s kind of ironic. Finally government did something good for a financially average Canadian, but guess what, it didn’t survive for a long.</p>
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		<title>By: Briefcases</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106530</link>
		<dc:creator>Briefcases</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106530</guid>
		<description>It sounds like these rules are not a problem.  They seem to mostly affect people who were somehow taking advantage of their TFSA.  It shows that the government did not fully think things through to establish proper rules from the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like these rules are not a problem.  They seem to mostly affect people who were somehow taking advantage of their TFSA.  It shows that the government did not fully think things through to establish proper rules from the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: cannon_fodder</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106495</link>
		<dc:creator>cannon_fodder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106495</guid>
		<description>I also think these changes are absolutely reasonable.  And, for me, they are a non issue.

What I&#039;d like to see is an increase in the contribution limit by $100 per year (that&#039;s about 2%) rather than wait until inflation has risen over the years to bring about a $500 uptick in the contribution limit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think these changes are absolutely reasonable.  And, for me, they are a non issue.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;d like to see is an increase in the contribution limit by $100 per year (that&#8217;s about 2%) rather than wait until inflation has risen over the years to bring about a $500 uptick in the contribution limit.</p>
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		<title>By: Chet</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106490</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106490</guid>
		<description>Here is an update that clarifies it (I think)

http://www.advisor.ca/advisors/news/industrynews/article.jsp?content=20091022_152855_6984</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an update that clarifies it (I think)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.advisor.ca/advisors/news/industrynews/article.jsp?content=20091022_152855_6984" rel="nofollow">http://www.advisor.ca/advisors/news/industrynews/article.jsp?content=20091022_152855_6984</a></p>
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		<title>By: YYC27</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106489</link>
		<dc:creator>YYC27</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106489</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think they&#039;re banning transfers in kind. They&#039;re banning swap transactions -- I put in $1,000 worth of shares, and take out $1,000 cash. From the press release:

&quot;Asset transfer transactions&quot; (sometimes known as &quot;swap transactions&quot;), in this context, refer to transfers of property (other than cash) for cash or other property between accounts (for example, a Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP) and another registered account) that are generally not treated as a withdrawal and re-contribution, but instead as a straightforward purchase and sale. Subject to the application of existing anti-avoidance rules in the Income Tax Act, these transfers, when performed on a frequent basis with a view to exploiting small changes in asset value, could potentially be used to shift value from, for example, an RRSP to a TFSA without paying tax, in the absence of any real intention to dispose of the asset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re banning transfers in kind. They&#8217;re banning swap transactions &#8212; I put in $1,000 worth of shares, and take out $1,000 cash. From the press release:</p>
<p>&#8220;Asset transfer transactions&#8221; (sometimes known as &#8220;swap transactions&#8221;), in this context, refer to transfers of property (other than cash) for cash or other property between accounts (for example, a Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP) and another registered account) that are generally not treated as a withdrawal and re-contribution, but instead as a straightforward purchase and sale. Subject to the application of existing anti-avoidance rules in the Income Tax Act, these transfers, when performed on a frequent basis with a view to exploiting small changes in asset value, could potentially be used to shift value from, for example, an RRSP to a TFSA without paying tax, in the absence of any real intention to dispose of the asset.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106472</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106472</guid>
		<description>I think these changes are reasonable.  Although the overcontribution idea does not seem like &quot;investing&quot; but more like gambling to me, if they can increase their limits unfairly this way, I think it is cheating the intended proposed system.

I dislike the asset transfer ban as well for reasons mentioned above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think these changes are reasonable.  Although the overcontribution idea does not seem like &#8220;investing&#8221; but more like gambling to me, if they can increase their limits unfairly this way, I think it is cheating the intended proposed system.</p>
<p>I dislike the asset transfer ban as well for reasons mentioned above.</p>
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		<title>By: Chet</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106466</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106466</guid>
		<description>Kate:  announced 10/16/09...

&quot;the proposed amendments are to apply to transactions that occur after today. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate:  announced 10/16/09&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;the proposed amendments are to apply to transactions that occur after today. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106464</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106464</guid>
		<description>Not being able to transfer assets is a bummer. When these changes are supposed to happen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not being able to transfer assets is a bummer. When these changes are supposed to happen?</p>
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		<title>By: fillalph</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106460</link>
		<dc:creator>fillalph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106460</guid>
		<description>Just made the biggest make ... I didn&#039;t read.

I had some shares of BMO in a cash account and transferred them to my TFSA. The book value is 8018.00 (I am an idiot - anyhow) and the current market value is approximately 11K

Today I saw your article and am trying to determine what to do. I called Canada Revenue Agency and to get under the $5K limit I have transfer out $3018 according to them.

Do I just figure out how many shares will give me that much market value today and transfer them back to my cash account? $3018/$51.99/share = 58.04 shares. 

So I should transfer say 59 (round up) to be safe?

Thanks,
fillalph</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just made the biggest make &#8230; I didn&#8217;t read.</p>
<p>I had some shares of BMO in a cash account and transferred them to my TFSA. The book value is 8018.00 (I am an idiot &#8211; anyhow) and the current market value is approximately 11K</p>
<p>Today I saw your article and am trying to determine what to do. I called Canada Revenue Agency and to get under the $5K limit I have transfer out $3018 according to them.</p>
<p>Do I just figure out how many shares will give me that much market value today and transfer them back to my cash account? $3018/$51.99/share = 58.04 shares. </p>
<p>So I should transfer say 59 (round up) to be safe?</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
fillalph</p>
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		<title>By: Charles in Vancouver</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106459</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles in Vancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106459</guid>
		<description>I am also concerned about the asset transfer ban... I have a small portfolio in ETFs and for the next many years the TFSA will make more sense for me than the RRSP. My plan was simply to shift that portfolio into TFSA, one chunk at a time, every year when I get new room. Certainly this doesn&#039;t constitute gaming the system, does it? Are they telling me that now I have to incur a sell and buy commission ($19 each way at my brokerage) in order to effect the same result??

This strikes me as overly punitive to small investors. I have jumped through enough hoops already to get myself a low-fee balanced portfolio. Why should I have to pay more for my investments because a few ingenious gamers broke the system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also concerned about the asset transfer ban&#8230; I have a small portfolio in ETFs and for the next many years the TFSA will make more sense for me than the RRSP. My plan was simply to shift that portfolio into TFSA, one chunk at a time, every year when I get new room. Certainly this doesn&#8217;t constitute gaming the system, does it? Are they telling me that now I have to incur a sell and buy commission ($19 each way at my brokerage) in order to effect the same result??</p>
<p>This strikes me as overly punitive to small investors. I have jumped through enough hoops already to get myself a low-fee balanced portfolio. Why should I have to pay more for my investments because a few ingenious gamers broke the system?</p>
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		<title>By: Cam Birch</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/proposed-tfsa-changes.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106455</link>
		<dc:creator>Cam Birch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=1080#comment-106455</guid>
		<description>Most of the proposed changes make sense.  I was actually giving thought to doing some over contributions to build money tax free.  It wasn&#039;t really a smart idea to begin with but sometimes the thought of cheating without cheating is fun.  I didn&#039;t realize that over contributions could cause an increase in available contribution room, guess they really didn&#039;t think that one through.

I am concerned about the asset transfer.  Sometimes you can have assets in a trading account that could be hard to acquire, or you just don&#039;t want to sell to have to repurchase.  I think that transferring assets in kind really does make sense in some situations, even if it means you need to pay the capital gains or whatnot.  The biggest issue with a sell/buy is it could trigger some of the governments crazy capital gains avoidance laws and get you all taxed to hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the proposed changes make sense.  I was actually giving thought to doing some over contributions to build money tax free.  It wasn&#8217;t really a smart idea to begin with but sometimes the thought of cheating without cheating is fun.  I didn&#8217;t realize that over contributions could cause an increase in available contribution room, guess they really didn&#8217;t think that one through.</p>
<p>I am concerned about the asset transfer.  Sometimes you can have assets in a trading account that could be hard to acquire, or you just don&#8217;t want to sell to have to repurchase.  I think that transferring assets in kind really does make sense in some situations, even if it means you need to pay the capital gains or whatnot.  The biggest issue with a sell/buy is it could trigger some of the governments crazy capital gains avoidance laws and get you all taxed to hell.</p>
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