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	<title>Comments on: Peak Oil or Oil Bubble? &#8211; The Peak Oil Argument</title>
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	<description>Building Wealth through Saving and Investing</description>
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		<title>By: newbie</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45410</link>
		<dc:creator>newbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45410</guid>
		<description>if it is true, I wonder how many little and big ways it will change our lives. Some changes may be more subtle than others. There seems to be a movement away from cadmium colours (some of the favoured colours of modernism produced from petroleum) towards natural earth pigments among artist. There are health benefits to this so not everyone is sad that these beautiful if toxic pigments may not be available in hundred and fifty years. Something for the historians to look back on...

 I don&#039;t relish the thought of shoveling horse manure all the same. (-:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if it is true, I wonder how many little and big ways it will change our lives. Some changes may be more subtle than others. There seems to be a movement away from cadmium colours (some of the favoured colours of modernism produced from petroleum) towards natural earth pigments among artist. There are health benefits to this so not everyone is sad that these beautiful if toxic pigments may not be available in hundred and fifty years. Something for the historians to look back on&#8230;</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t relish the thought of shoveling horse manure all the same. (-:</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45296</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45296</guid>
		<description>The peak oil theory will some day be accepted as widely as human-induced climate change.  The problem is that most people do not want to believe it because it means making changes in their lives.  And even though this article mentions emerging market subsidies, there is no mention of the ridiculously low price Americans still pay for gasoline compared to the rest of the world.  When I was paying $1.40/L here in Canada, CNN was whining about Texans paying $3.60/US gal.  That means they&#039;re paying less than $1/L.  Boo hoo.  And they are the largest energy consumers in the world.  3% of the world&#039;s population accounting for 25% of global energy consumption.  Sure China and India are growing fast, but it will be some time before they develop the voracious appetite for oil of the Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The peak oil theory will some day be accepted as widely as human-induced climate change.  The problem is that most people do not want to believe it because it means making changes in their lives.  And even though this article mentions emerging market subsidies, there is no mention of the ridiculously low price Americans still pay for gasoline compared to the rest of the world.  When I was paying $1.40/L here in Canada, CNN was whining about Texans paying $3.60/US gal.  That means they&#8217;re paying less than $1/L.  Boo hoo.  And they are the largest energy consumers in the world.  3% of the world&#8217;s population accounting for 25% of global energy consumption.  Sure China and India are growing fast, but it will be some time before they develop the voracious appetite for oil of the Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: easypz</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45256</link>
		<dc:creator>easypz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45256</guid>
		<description>Oh, the Fraser Institute would win hands down, as it&#039;s arguing for the winning side. A quick look at the environment will show that it&#039;s the one sagging on the ropes. 

I think the appropriateness of using the word &quot;tar&quot; isn&#039;t in its chemical description, but in the value of keeping in mind the context of refining bitumen. It needs a lot of energy to process. &quot;Oil,&quot; in that respect, is misleading, because it implies that the resource is available with minimal fuss.

At any rate, what I&#039;m trying to get across is sort of reframing the question. We can&#039;t sustain our use of oil even if there was an unlimited supply. It&#039;s going to peak, but not solely because of the status of reserves left in the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, the Fraser Institute would win hands down, as it&#8217;s arguing for the winning side. A quick look at the environment will show that it&#8217;s the one sagging on the ropes. </p>
<p>I think the appropriateness of using the word &#8220;tar&#8221; isn&#8217;t in its chemical description, but in the value of keeping in mind the context of refining bitumen. It needs a lot of energy to process. &#8220;Oil,&#8221; in that respect, is misleading, because it implies that the resource is available with minimal fuss.</p>
<p>At any rate, what I&#8217;m trying to get across is sort of reframing the question. We can&#8217;t sustain our use of oil even if there was an unlimited supply. It&#8217;s going to peak, but not solely because of the status of reserves left in the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: nobleea</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45255</link>
		<dc:creator>nobleea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45255</guid>
		<description>&quot;The word tar to describe these natural bitumen deposits is really a misnomer, since, chemically speaking, tar is a man-made substance produced by the destructive distillation of organic material, usually coal. Since then, coal gas has almost completely been replaced by natural gas as a fuel, and coal tar as a material for paving roads has been replaced by the petroleum product asphalt. Naturally occurring bitumen is chemically more similar to asphalt than to tar, and oil sands (or oilsands) is more commonly used in the producing areas than tar sands because synthetic oil is what is manufactured from the bitumen.&quot;

I&#039;d like to see the Pembina &#039;Institute&#039; and the Fraser &#039;Institute&#039; go at it in the ring. I wonder who would win...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The word tar to describe these natural bitumen deposits is really a misnomer, since, chemically speaking, tar is a man-made substance produced by the destructive distillation of organic material, usually coal. Since then, coal gas has almost completely been replaced by natural gas as a fuel, and coal tar as a material for paving roads has been replaced by the petroleum product asphalt. Naturally occurring bitumen is chemically more similar to asphalt than to tar, and oil sands (or oilsands) is more commonly used in the producing areas than tar sands because synthetic oil is what is manufactured from the bitumen.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see the Pembina &#8216;Institute&#8217; and the Fraser &#8216;Institute&#8217; go at it in the ring. I wonder who would win&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: easypz</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45252</link>
		<dc:creator>easypz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45252</guid>
		<description>&quot;Oil sands&quot; is the industry&#039;s term. Describing it as the &quot;official name&quot; implies that the oil industry ought to set the terms of discussion. They mostly do, and have for a long time, but maybe we ought to pause a bit before accepting their values so quickly, given the dire situation those values have led us to.

Refining the toxic gunk in Northern Alberta – bitumen, aka &quot;tar&quot; - causes 3-4 times the greenhouse gases of getting oil from traditional wells. The sands contribute the largest single addition to Canada&#039;s increase in those emissions. According to The Pembina Institute, the main environmental organization studying the environmental effects of the sands, forests &quot;an area as large as the State of Florida&quot; are at risk. Not to mention local rivers. “Tar” is the accurate term, if not the official one. 

Sands oil costs a lot to refine, but it works if the price of oil is higher - like it is now. Although we&#039;ve become the largest supplier of oil to the US and good ol&#039; NAFTA prevents us from cutting off oil to them, thus making the supply very secure indeed, and multinationals are about to sign a sweetheart deal in Iraq which will free up a lot of oil and profits - the Iraq National Oil Company is supposedly in control, yet foreign companies will keep 75 percent of the contracts’ value (so much for the influence of Nationals: we&#039;ll just take what we want, thanks) – yet despite all that, oil prices have kept going up. So I think that there will be cycles, but the trend will be upward, regardless how many new sources of oil are discovered. 

The very existence of the tar sands bonanza, and other &quot;initiatives,&quot; such as the lobbying to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, seems to moderate the one-to-one cause/effect notion that high oil prices will spawn free-market innovation in alternative energy. It&#039;s clear from these examples that the market, if let alone, will keep on seeking oil from wherever, no matter the environmental cost, for as long as possible. If prices keep going up, so much the better, not only for profits, but for public relations: that condition makes it easier to convince the public to allow environmental destruction in the name of access to a vital resource - against the otherwise overwhelming tide of opinion that values protecting the environment above the maintenance of an unsustainable way of living.

I think the most effective way to spawn innovation is to empower the entrepreneurial spirit through progressive legislation and incentives. The people’s will, through government, should be a major player in the marketplace. That’s the combination that really works, not just one or the other polarity. At this stage of the environmental crisis, it’s madness to abandon our direct will to an abstraction like the free market. The free market without the people’s influence means lobbyists in the back rooms of Ottawa and Washington pushing the “official” agenda. Which is the old agenda, the one that got us here in the first place. 

There are so many amazing people and projects around the world devoted to improving energy efficiency/effectiveness and finding sustainable alternatives, creating workable strategies to radically reduce oil consumption in various industries (especially important is construction), increasing cradle-to-cradle manufacturing, developing and marketing biodegradable substitutes for traditional plastics that aren’t made of petroleum, etc., etc. Although they’re not hard to find, they don’t have the clout that the “official” industry does, so they can really benefit from government help in the form of increased tax benefits to support R&amp;D and so on. The &quot;official&quot; industry line is only going to get in the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oil sands&#8221; is the industry&#8217;s term. Describing it as the &#8220;official name&#8221; implies that the oil industry ought to set the terms of discussion. They mostly do, and have for a long time, but maybe we ought to pause a bit before accepting their values so quickly, given the dire situation those values have led us to.</p>
<p>Refining the toxic gunk in Northern Alberta – bitumen, aka &#8220;tar&#8221; &#8211; causes 3-4 times the greenhouse gases of getting oil from traditional wells. The sands contribute the largest single addition to Canada&#8217;s increase in those emissions. According to The Pembina Institute, the main environmental organization studying the environmental effects of the sands, forests &#8220;an area as large as the State of Florida&#8221; are at risk. Not to mention local rivers. “Tar” is the accurate term, if not the official one. </p>
<p>Sands oil costs a lot to refine, but it works if the price of oil is higher &#8211; like it is now. Although we&#8217;ve become the largest supplier of oil to the US and good ol&#8217; NAFTA prevents us from cutting off oil to them, thus making the supply very secure indeed, and multinationals are about to sign a sweetheart deal in Iraq which will free up a lot of oil and profits &#8211; the Iraq National Oil Company is supposedly in control, yet foreign companies will keep 75 percent of the contracts’ value (so much for the influence of Nationals: we&#8217;ll just take what we want, thanks) – yet despite all that, oil prices have kept going up. So I think that there will be cycles, but the trend will be upward, regardless how many new sources of oil are discovered. </p>
<p>The very existence of the tar sands bonanza, and other &#8220;initiatives,&#8221; such as the lobbying to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, seems to moderate the one-to-one cause/effect notion that high oil prices will spawn free-market innovation in alternative energy. It&#8217;s clear from these examples that the market, if let alone, will keep on seeking oil from wherever, no matter the environmental cost, for as long as possible. If prices keep going up, so much the better, not only for profits, but for public relations: that condition makes it easier to convince the public to allow environmental destruction in the name of access to a vital resource &#8211; against the otherwise overwhelming tide of opinion that values protecting the environment above the maintenance of an unsustainable way of living.</p>
<p>I think the most effective way to spawn innovation is to empower the entrepreneurial spirit through progressive legislation and incentives. The people’s will, through government, should be a major player in the marketplace. That’s the combination that really works, not just one or the other polarity. At this stage of the environmental crisis, it’s madness to abandon our direct will to an abstraction like the free market. The free market without the people’s influence means lobbyists in the back rooms of Ottawa and Washington pushing the “official” agenda. Which is the old agenda, the one that got us here in the first place. </p>
<p>There are so many amazing people and projects around the world devoted to improving energy efficiency/effectiveness and finding sustainable alternatives, creating workable strategies to radically reduce oil consumption in various industries (especially important is construction), increasing cradle-to-cradle manufacturing, developing and marketing biodegradable substitutes for traditional plastics that aren’t made of petroleum, etc., etc. Although they’re not hard to find, they don’t have the clout that the “official” industry does, so they can really benefit from government help in the form of increased tax benefits to support R&amp;D and so on. The &#8220;official&#8221; industry line is only going to get in the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Quincy Walters</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45246</link>
		<dc:creator>Quincy Walters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45246</guid>
		<description>For a more academic treatment of the peak oil argument, I suggest you check out The Oil Drum...for example they have a breakdown of the CFTC report on specs today, etc. &lt;a href=&quot;http://theoildrum.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Oil Drum&lt;/a&gt;.  Good stuff in my estimation...not too doomerish, not very hopeful either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a more academic treatment of the peak oil argument, I suggest you check out The Oil Drum&#8230;for example they have a breakdown of the CFTC report on specs today, etc. <a href="http://theoildrum.com" rel="nofollow">The Oil Drum</a>.  Good stuff in my estimation&#8230;not too doomerish, not very hopeful either.</p>
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		<title>By: nobleea</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45242</link>
		<dc:creator>nobleea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45242</guid>
		<description>At the last conference I went to, Spears and Associates presented a speech on how the oil industry is changing.  While we see and hear all about the large multinationals/integrated energy company making all the money, the growth is actually coming from the nationalized companies and independents.

When we hear about massive quarterly profits, these are from public companies.  I would bet that each one of us, somewhere in our investments, owns a little bit of each one of these companies.  They don&#039;t spend a whole lot on exploration anymore because they can&#039;t.  The areas were there are large new finds are in areas controlled by countries nationalized oil companies.  The large integrateds need a certain size of find for it to be worthwhile and they&#039;re not going to find too many of them anymore.  Where does the money go that the large multinationals are hoarding? A lot of it&#039;s got to go to research and innovation to try and improve production methods on what they already have. Some might go to buy out smaller companies in order to gain reserves. Some might be used to buy back shares.  Hoarding the cash for themselves doesn&#039;t sound right since they are public companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the last conference I went to, Spears and Associates presented a speech on how the oil industry is changing.  While we see and hear all about the large multinationals/integrated energy company making all the money, the growth is actually coming from the nationalized companies and independents.</p>
<p>When we hear about massive quarterly profits, these are from public companies.  I would bet that each one of us, somewhere in our investments, owns a little bit of each one of these companies.  They don&#8217;t spend a whole lot on exploration anymore because they can&#8217;t.  The areas were there are large new finds are in areas controlled by countries nationalized oil companies.  The large integrateds need a certain size of find for it to be worthwhile and they&#8217;re not going to find too many of them anymore.  Where does the money go that the large multinationals are hoarding? A lot of it&#8217;s got to go to research and innovation to try and improve production methods on what they already have. Some might go to buy out smaller companies in order to gain reserves. Some might be used to buy back shares.  Hoarding the cash for themselves doesn&#8217;t sound right since they are public companies.</p>
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		<title>By: ThickenMyWallet</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45240</link>
		<dc:creator>ThickenMyWallet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45240</guid>
		<description>The question of when will never truly be known given that it is often believed most OPEC countries are over-stating their reserves. 

As a complete aside, oil companies (sorry, now branded energy companies) are making billions quarterly, spend very little on new exploration relative to their profits and pay a very modest dividend. In other words, they are hoarding their money and enriching themselves.  Why isn&#039;t there a greater outcry over this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of when will never truly be known given that it is often believed most OPEC countries are over-stating their reserves. </p>
<p>As a complete aside, oil companies (sorry, now branded energy companies) are making billions quarterly, spend very little on new exploration relative to their profits and pay a very modest dividend. In other words, they are hoarding their money and enriching themselves.  Why isn&#8217;t there a greater outcry over this?</p>
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		<title>By: FrugalTrader</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45239</link>
		<dc:creator>FrugalTrader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45239</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great article Ed, very educational.  It&#039;s hard to say if we&#039;re currently going through peak oil or not.  To me, it sounds more like fear mongering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great article Ed, very educational.  It&#8217;s hard to say if we&#8217;re currently going through peak oil or not.  To me, it sounds more like fear mongering.</p>
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		<title>By: nobleea</title>
		<link>http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/peak-oil-or-oil-bubble-the-peak-oil-argument.htm/comment-page-1#comment-45222</link>
		<dc:creator>nobleea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/?p=585#comment-45222</guid>
		<description>I think that peak oil is a reality, it has to be.  The current pricing is probably somewhat of a bubble, but the long term trend is up.

There are fewer and fewer big finds these days, so increased production will have to come in the form of new technologies or improved artificial lift methods.

The official name is &#039;oil sands&#039;. Tar sands was created by environmentalists to give it an even dirtier image. Obama can try and ban oilsands oil from the states, but a lot of the refineries are designed specifically to handle it. I don&#039;t know where they&#039;re going to get the oil from instead. It&#039;s tough to find a safer and better business partner than Canada when it comes to buying oil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that peak oil is a reality, it has to be.  The current pricing is probably somewhat of a bubble, but the long term trend is up.</p>
<p>There are fewer and fewer big finds these days, so increased production will have to come in the form of new technologies or improved artificial lift methods.</p>
<p>The official name is &#8216;oil sands&#8217;. Tar sands was created by environmentalists to give it an even dirtier image. Obama can try and ban oilsands oil from the states, but a lot of the refineries are designed specifically to handle it. I don&#8217;t know where they&#8217;re going to get the oil from instead. It&#8217;s tough to find a safer and better business partner than Canada when it comes to buying oil.</p>
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