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How Much Does a Tim Hortons Franchise Cost and Profit?





With Tim Hortons being one of the most successful Canadian franchises, I’m willing to bet that you have wondered about the Tim Hortons business.  that is specifically how much revenue/profit a single location generates and how much it costs to start one up.

While it’s apparent that owning a Tim Hortons is like having a money printing machine, most do not realize the costs involved, and how much an owner really takes home.  When doing my research on the costs, I was surprised with how much the parent company takes off the top.  I always thought that franchises had to pay in about 8%-9% royalty which includes marketing.  But the numbers  that I’ve been coming up with is in the range of 17% – 19% on gross sales!  Then I realized that the Tim Hortons parent company actually builds the property and owns the land, so a large portion of the total royalty expenses is the rent charge.

How much does a Tim Hortons Franchise Cost?

As with any franchise, since the franchisee is getting a business that has track record of success, there is an added layer of cost.  Not only do they need to cover typical operating expenses, Tim Hortons franchises need to pay a weekly royalty, monthly marketing fee (similar to royalty), and monthly rent.  If that wasn’t enough, the start up costs are quite high.  As mentioned, Tim Hortons will build the location, but the franchisee is responsible for the startup equipment and the initial franchise fee.

Here is a tally of the ongoing costs from the Tim Hortons website:

  • a weekly Royalty fee of 4.5% of gross sales for the term of the License;
  • a monthly Rental fee (which is the greater of a fixed minimum rent or 8.5% of gross monthly sales);
  • a monthly Advertising levy of 4% of gross sales for the term of the License.

This works out to be a 17% of total gross sales per month – that is before any other expenses are paid!

Here are the startup costs:

The cost of a full Canadian franchise varies from $430,000 to $480,000* (CDN$) (plus all applicable taxes). At least $144,000 of the franchise cost must be unencumbered (cash or liquid assets), in addition to $50,000 in working capital (also unencumbered). The remaining amount may be financed through the chartered banks, upon approval of a franchise.

Included in the cost of a franchise is the following:

  • all equipment, furniture, display equipment and signage
  • 7-week training program in the Oakville, ON Tim Hortons University
  • a store opening crew to assist in the opening of a Tim Hortons restaurant (for a maximum period of two weeks)
  • the use of all Tim Hortons Manuals
  • right to use the Trademarks and Trade names
  • support from the head Office personnel

I’ve read on the U.S Tim Hortons site that they offer an incentive program for new franchisees.  It doesn’t appear to be available to Canadians, but the offer is basically a reduced royalty for 24 months (4.5% -> 2.5%).

How much does a Tim Hortons Franchise make?

Information on franchise profits was a little harder to come by as it’s not openly shared information.  From my digging around, I’ve read that average franchisees (in 2006) made around 16%-20% profit after all expenses but without real numbers for backup.  However, the big court case between franchisees and the parent company in 2011 made some of the numbers public.

In 2008, the average Tim Hortons franchisee profited $265k after all expenses.  We don’t know the actual average revenue numbers for 2008 to earn the $265k, but they disclose that between 2002 and 2008, the average franchise earned (before interest and taxes) $1.5M which fits franchisee profit range of 16%-20%.

If you know more about the Tim Hortons franchise, please share!





66 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. 1. joesnapple

    lol….not bad…you’re pretty “close” to all the numbers…a little high on some and low on others….You’re research is good. Suffice to say there are not many starving owners in the Tim Horton’s system….but…ownership of a Tim’s does not come without all the headaches either…..

    :)

  2. 2. Steve

    One thing I’ve noticed about Tim Hortons in my particular area (Halton) more than any other franchise is you can pretty accurately guess the owner’s heritage by the staff. A bunch of these Tim’s are no more than 5-10 minute drives apart, yet one will have nearly all staff of a particular ethic/racial origin, while the next one will be nearly all staff of a different origin. The population demographics do not support any one particular origin over another. One of them even hires nearly all people with learning disabilities (I’m sure the owner has a disabled loved one.)

    So my question here is, what hiring practices does TH enforce and how much efffort does the mothership put into fair (or unfair) hiring?

    On a similar note, you can’t help but notice McDonalds franchises figured out long ago that your get better repeat store sales if the workers are young girls who are very skinny (not waitress skinny, I’m talking beanpole skinny). Seriously, compare the average build of a McDonalds girls to nearly any other minimum wage franchise. McDonalds hires VERY few overweight women and even fewer overweight men for part-time positions.

  3. 3. joesnapple

    “As a company of team players, one of our greatest strengths is the diversity of the people on each team.

    Our team members represent a variety of backgrounds, experiences, and personalities. And these diverse experiences make the Tim Hortons team what we are: positive and inclusive.

    We’re proud to offer a respectful, friendly environment where enthusiastic people enjoy working together to meet our guests’ needs. ”

    That’s the statement….I think your observations of McD’s are not true…I could show you a few opposite of what you are claiming….in addition, you can only hire those that apply….GTA and surrounding area is very culturally diverse….

  4. 4. TimmyTom

    I interviewed a Timmies franchise owner one when researching whether I wanted to try to become one.. Some interesting things I’ve found through either research, heresay, or learned through my conversation with the franchise owner:

    - There is a huge waiting list of people wanting a franchise
    - Due to this, they tend to choose people with very solid financial standing and typically very high level experience (executives, financial professionals, those in management, etc.) who are looking for a lifestyle change
    - The owner is expected to be an active manager, not a passive investor who hires a manager for his store(s). They actually expect your spouse to also be an active participant as well. ie. They want you to be passionate about Timmies, and everything about it – not just in it as an investment.
    - They like to have franchisees have 2 locations. Not sure how required this is, but they encourage you to open a second location in the viscinity if the market needs it, and manage both.
    - Franchise locations in high-rent areas like shopping malls have high revenue but very little profit due to high overhead (don’t know the exact figures).
    - Timmie’s head office has the power to come in and tell you “You need a second iced cap machine” and bam – you have to dish out x-thousand dollars for a new machine just like that. Your control is limited in how the store is set up, though you have a lot of control over production (making sure you make the right stuff in the right quantities without waste, to maximize profits) and staffing.

    Hope that helps!

  5. Is there control as to how much owners pay their staff?

  6. 6. TimmyTom

    Good question, don’t know! Interesting how minimum wage is more or less the same though across the country (low of $9.00, high of $11.00) considering the difference i cost of living (I’d rather be making $10/hr in St.John’s than $9.50 in Vancouver!). But then again the cost of a Timmies is the same across the country too…

  7. 7. Andrew F

    Actually, TH retail prices vary across the country.

  8. 8. TimmyTom

    Hmm, didn’t know that. Can’t be that much different though?

  9. I wouldn’t touch a Timmy’s franchise with a 10 foot pole. Particularly now that there’s rumblings of increased competition.

    Where I am, there’s a McDee’s right across the street. Tim’s service is abysmal, McDee’s is outstanding. Tim’s coffee is great, so is McDee’s now. And when there’s a roll up the rim to win, we get free coffee at McDee’s for a week, and then any size for $1.05. That makes the decision easy – cheaper coffee that tastes as good, and better service (I’m not waiting in line forever). And I’m not alone in this switch around here.

    And Tim’s recent change in cup size was a clear reaction to McDonalds – they just realigned their cup sizes to match McDee’s.

    And if it ain’t McDee’s, it’ll be Starbucks or somebody else. I think it’s too big of a game for others in the restuarant business to not want a piece.

  10. 10. joesnapple

    No..prices should be the same….if different, then within pennies for taxes, whatever….not sure where you got the info from….

    -You will not get a store in the Golden Horseshoe in ON….depends on where you want to go. You want one in the US, no problem, but you will work hard to develop the core market. Sales not the same in US except Buffalo…and you won’t get one there either.

    -yes they want strong finances, ie you cannot borrow the full amount of the franchisee fee…but you do not have to be a former management exec, etc to get a store….the amount of idiots in the chain can attest to that…

    -yes they want an active owner, not just an investor…if your an investor and can easily afford it, then you probably have another business or two and won’t focus on Tim’s.

    -not sure where the 2 locations comes from…you won’t get 2 if you can’t run 1, and if you get 2 and run good, you’ll get 3,4, etc…

    -really?? malls high overhead…hmmm…not really, rent is the same to the owner. And you can make same profits without being a 24 hour operation. Give me 5 mall locations anyday…

    -no BAM and you hafta put in an ice capp machine…most stuff is in the franchise agreement and there may be strong suggestions to do it…if your selling tons of ice capps, but can’t keep up with demand, why wouldn’t you?

    -yes there are standard models and it’s layed out a certain way….why not? the company has been building stores for almost 50 years and to everyone’s acknowledgement….they make money…so who knows better?

  11. 11. Arlene

    I dont think all Franchises have to pay rent. I think if you purchase the building you dont have to pay rent. I used to work at a accounting firm, and we had a few clients that had Tim Hortons businesses. I do recall that not all of them paid rent????? But my memory could be wrong????

  12. 12. SST

    @Steve re:#2 — “One of them even hires nearly all people with learning disabilities”

    When doing so, an employer will always (in almost all cases) get government subsidies. I know of a couple of unscrupulous and greedy “restauranteurs” who use this practice to make even more money.

    As of late Timmy’s was having legal problems with it’s franchisees:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/02/28/tim-hortons-class-action.html

    Mmmm…frozen doughnuts.
    No thanks.
    I wouldn’t buy anything Timmy’s.

    Boston Pizza on the other hand…there’s a real franchise operation.

  13. I teach a bunch of students who work at Timmys. It is bad enough trying to get them to learn for their own sakes, I can’t imagine having to depend on them in any meaningful way. I’m sure most would be just fine, but man, dealing with the constant learning process and high staff turnover would not be my cup of tea. I have always wondered about the numbers though. I bet after you ran the first one, subsequent locations would be a lot easier. It would probably get really profitable if you owned 2-4 in the same city.

  14. @Arlene, straight from their website, they build all locations with no option for the franchise owner to build their own location.

  15. 15. Miiockm

    Does anyone know what the minimum population required for a franchise is or if there even is one? I’ve seen small towns with 3 Tim Hortons.

  16. 16. joesnapple

    @SST – Frivolous lawsuit was decisively dismissed in Tim Horton’s favour…..my speculation is that it was a result of former owner Ron Joyce backing the lawsuit as sour grapes or whatever….that’s done with.

    @Arlene…all owners pay “rent”.

    @SST…Boston Pizza, really? Last time I checked the little Canadian company was the 4th largest QSR in North America(world?) based on Market Cap. BP is a nice to have but I would take a Tim’s anyday…and MAYBE someday in the future, we’ll see ;)

    @My University Money….yep, overhead marginally increases with subsequent stores, so profit can increase if you have multiple locations.

    @Miiockm….no “population” requirement. Just good business sense(and luck in some cases)…I know some that are in the most remote location making you scratch your head…but if on a major traffic highway (ie Trans Canada highway) you get a lot of pass by traffic that stops in for a coffee or two…

    The Tim Horton’s model for franchising is probably the best I’ve seen compared to the likes of even McD’s, BK, Wendy’s, etc…..It is owning and renting the properties that allows the parent company to somewhat “control” the consistency across the chain. Not perfect in any stretch, but the idea is to have any Tims the same no matter where you go…so you always feel at “home”. Ever go into a McD’s in one area and it’s beautiful and then another area and it’s a dump? That’s a result of owners owning building themselves and not taking care of it. Again, Tim’s not perfect but actually more consistent….if you knew what I knew….

  17. 17. Steve

    @ SST: Yeah, I’m quite aware of someone stacking their staff with subsidized employees in order to stack their profits. I like to live in the dream that the owner is giving them a job because they deserve it, not for exploitation because I would get very upset and there’s not much I can do about it.

    @ Milockm: I studied this in high school for a business class (mid 90s). At the time I determined that in those days in small towns in my area (north of Toronto) (no mall locations, no co-Wendy’s etc.) that there was about one Tim Horton’s store for every 10,000 people roughly. The number would get skewed by more rural vs urban. 10,000 people spread across farming communities don’t need a tim hortons, but a town of 8-10,000 always have one. My hometown, Orangeville had three independent stores for a service area of 30,000 people.

  18. 18. joesnapple

    Sorry missed one
    @Insure Can…cup size was to ultimately match what Tims is offering in the US. Ever been to the US in recent years and ordered…you would have seen the difference

  19. 19. SST

    @jowsnapple: “…Boston Pizza, really? Last time I checked the little Canadian company was the 4th largest QSR in North America(world?) based on Market Cap.”

    ?????
    You need to review your findings or throw them out all together.
    TH is 4th PUBLICLY TRADED QSR, but only the 46th QSR in N.America.

    http://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/2011-qsr-50

    Besides that, BP is NOT a QSR. It is ‘casual dining’.
    The two are NOT comparable.

    Not to mention the fact that more head office profit in no way constitutes more franchisee profit.

    BPs store sales growth have averaged over 6%; THs just under 4%.

  20. 20. Emilio

    Boston Pizza provides the worst value for your money in comparison to all similar chains. Not only would I not want to run one, but I will never step foot in a BP.

    Montana’s is 100 times better food/service/value.

  21. 21. joesnapple

    @SST – I think you should look at that ranking a little closer. I agree, in sales the $439.2M is accurate and Tim’s is ranked 46th….in the US!!!! In addition I said Market Cap…what the company is worth.

    Read the header…”2010 U.S System wide sales” I assure you the average Tim’s in Canada makes a lot more than $978K.

    In addition I randomly picked Papa Johns (i like their pizza) and they have a market cap of:
    Market Cap: 893.56M
    P/E (ttm): 16.75
    EPS (ttm): 2.20

    and are ranked 17th in your link.

    Tim’s has a market cap of:

    Market Cap: 8.30B
    P/E (ttm): 22.32
    EPS (ttm): 2.37

    and is ranked 46th.

    Even the mighty Dunkin is only

    Market Cap: 3.73B
    P/E (ttm): 88.03
    EPS (ttm): 0.35

    I would rather be “US” ranked 46th with 8.3B than “US” 17th ranked and 893M, no?

    I disagree with you…head office profit is directly related to owner profit. Tim’s HO makes money if the owners make money….period…not gonna go into details, but that’s the bottom line. Which is why the owners are so important in the Tim’s family.

    You are right the two are not comparable in terms of casual dining and QSR….and I’ll take you at your word that BP has SSS of 6%…last year…Tim’s has had positive growth of 3-8% for I don’t know how many years straight and counting….I don’t believe any one has done that. in 2009 I think Tim’s was the only one with positive growth when all others were closing stores Tim’s forged ahead…and continue to open about 200 stores per year…

    Not trying to be-little BP…I like them, and go once in a while….but I doubt they have a 10 year plus waiting list to get a restaurant. (Unless you want to go to the US)……lol….must be doing something right.

  22. 22. Al

    @ joesapple:

    TH head office can make money even if a franchisee makes no or little money (they get rent, royalties, and tied purchasing). It’s not too hard to imagine a marginal location that just barely breaks even; and it’s not to hard a stretch to imagine that TH corporate incentives are to scale up, saturate the market so that more franchisees lead to more rent royalties and tied purchasing… well that’s what I would want if I were a shareholder (I am not)… unless you’ve got more information there that you are willing to share…

  23. 23. Sarlock

    $250k profit/year, less your capital/interest costs and other expenses… you basically buy yourself a decent paying job with a fair bit of headache involved. If you enjoy customer service and fast food retail, it’s a good little business to get in to, like so many other fast food franchises out there. But if you expect to sit on a beach and have your businesses run themselves and send you a cheque every month, a fast food franchise isn’t really going to achieve that for you.

  24. 24. Roy

    For the last five years,I gave up Tim hortons for LENT. It was also during this time that Timmies introduced “roll up the rim” This I decided to fast by giving up on swearing instead of Timies.
    You know what—I have’nt won a damm thing so far! So, I am going to give up Timmies till Easter.

  25. 25. Sampson

    2 things I know.

    Salaries are not regulated – during the last boom here in Calgary, some Timmies were offering staff $15-$18/hr.

    Costs are not within a few pennies. – I have seen large sell for as low as $1.30 and as high as $1.80.

  26. >>>@Insure Can…cup size was to ultimately match what Tims is offering in the US. Ever been to the US in recent years and ordered…you would have seen the difference

    Well, they matched cup size either with McDonalds or their US locations. They’ve got pretty good reasons to match McDonald’s sizes since they’re competing directly with them (and not winning in all cases). Claiming they’re matching sizes with their US locations seems like an excuse, there’s not a lot of impetus to start copying branding and marketing strategies from underperforming American locations.

    Either way it’s speculation.

  27. 27. JimBob

    In Canada you can get a McDonalds small coffee and muffin for 1.56 with taxes included. At Tim Hortons the large is equivlant to McDonalds small and its over 2 bucks with taxes. McDonald has free refills to boot and no long line ups. I honestly do not know why people line up for over 20minutes to get only a coffee. Better yet the muffins and baked goods are not frozen and warmed up and advertised to customers as “Always Fresh”.

  28. 28. joesnapple

    You know JimBob, if you like McD’s, go there…nothing wrong with that because their coffee has actually changed from a few years ago and is not too bad, but to outright lie…wow…Tim’s large is a McD’s small and over 2 bucks? Give me the address, this I have got to see for myself. 20 minutes? not likely, again can I pls have the address. No need to exaggerate. You can get a coffee at McD’s quicker because there is no one there….that’s a fact….my brother does it everyday and gives me the gears…funny actually…

    Frozen..sure…just warmed up….not quite right. I’d explain it to you but you have obviously already made your opinion….based on google science no doubt. The papers always right the proper facts…makes me laugh at what they DO write regarding anything I know for sure, not just Tim’s…

    You’re right, McD’s has a bake shop to make the fresh muffins in the back everyday…and sell so many that they never sit all day……

    (how do I do an eye rolling emoticon??)

    never mind I googled it…

    8-|

  29. 29. Leo

    So much skepticism, fair enough, but no hating on Joe please. Don’t know him but why do I get the feeling he’s the only one with skin in the game? Or maybe I’m just easily persuaded.

    @joesnapple: May I ask will there be opportunities to take TH franchises international? I only know of UK quick-testing, and one recent Dubai. Any general TH PR contacts you can recommend?

    Thanks.

  30. 30. joesnapple

    @Leo…yes “skin in the game” as it were. I know how the place works…intrinsically…insider if you will….UK is more than quick testing with quietly about 200 or so if you didn’t know. (That’s south Ireland too). But most of those are self serve types if memory serves me…There are actually 5 in Dubai area with more to come. Other than that the US is only “international” place to go. Over seas are all partnerships and not really individual franchised. If you “really” want one the US is the easiest place to get one(except Buffalo area). Of course it’s not the same (yet) as owning one in the likes of Hamilton…..unless you want to go really remote northern Canada where you might get one….personally not looking to move to the Arctic…

    :)

  31. 31. Topple oop

    I wouldn’t mind a franchise… Especially a Tim Hortons, but I tend to drink at Starbucks, because Timmies never have wifi. What’s up with that?

  32. 32. Majic

    To joesnapple,

    Do you know how much average Tim Hortons store makes in the USA?

    Gross sale? Please and thank you.

  33. 33. THyyc

    Attention joesnapple

    Check out http://warehousecomic.com/comic_062.php to understand the difference between your and you’re. This is especially important after you’ve called others out as being “idiots”.

    Also, there’s no such word as layed. Perhaps you should try “yes there are standard models and it’s LAID out a certain way”

  34. 34. bigbeat

    @joesnapple. You don’t have to go to the artic to get a franchise. An example right now would be the new store in Estevan SK, Tims has been running ads in the local rag every week trying to find a franchisee. The franchisee for the existing store in town doesn’t want to take on a second location due to poor health and you should be able to do a deal to pick up both stores. The down side would be higher than average wage costs due to all the oil money in town and the existing location being scheduled for a reno next year.

  35. 35. ANH VU

    I would like to want a Tim Hortons Franchise in Guelph.

    Thanks

  36. 36. Kim

    A Tim’s now cost 600k plus.

  37. 37. John

    This is some huge lies. Go to this site and read the actual Tim Hortons contract in full. Punch in tim hortons lies and see what you will read. This company is the biggest scam, read how Tim Hortons owns all the goodwill in the business and how you have to make your profits from the day to day operations and not the sale of the store!
    What a joke, and the only person who can purchase the business is Tim Hortons and under the buyback the store is worth less than zero in 5 years.

    The FACTS are all there on the net for all to see!!!!!!!!!!!!

  38. 38. kim peyton

    My friend just became a TH franchisee…600 to purchase.

  39. 39. CJ

    This is about what you sign when you buy a franchise.

    Read the entire contract at Tim Hortons Lies website and see what the real numbers are.

    Many store owners going broke, the business cannot be sold, the value is predetermined in the contract and in less than 5 years is worthless!! All your hard work and effort is owned by Tim Hortons (in the contract).

    Read the expert testimony that compares a McD’s and a Tim Hortons. You get paid for your hard work and efforts when it’s time to sell a McD’s. If you owned a Tim Hortons, your profits can on ly come from the day to day operations and not the resale of the business. Yes tht is written right in thee contract.

    What about Tim Hortons hospital locations, they are losing millions each year and the taxpayers of Canada are on the hook subsidizing a publicly traded company?

    The facts are the facts, read the entire contract and see for yourself!

  40. 40. TimmyLOLWiseUp

    Everyone here is argueing but none of you own a Tim Horton’s. Buy into one, then come back here and spew your theories and ideas. I work at one, and these guys bank. I’ve seen the financial figures on their computers, and I do the purchasing of stock and know the prices. This is a $$$$ machine.

  41. 41. CJ

    Go punch in tim hortons lies on any search engine and visit the site by that name. Read what’s in the contract. This is from people who owned one. Read how an owner can’t sell the store and the purchase price is all pre-determined so if you can’t pocket a bunch of cash the business that you pay a half million dollars for is worth ZERO is less than 5 years (right in the contract!). I don’t know how its possible but the entire agreement is actually on the site and so is the breakdown of sales that potential store owners receive prior to purchase. Funny thing is a sworn affidavit in court states Tim Hortons knows nothing about the pro-forma? Interesting insight people!!!

  42. 42. David

    Speaking as a Tim Hortons owner myself, I will attest that a lot of the facts you are saying are indeed correct. The average net profit after fees and taxes is accurate, although where I am located that net is considerably higher, closer to $375,000 – $400,000. The wages I pay are also amongst the highest in the region as it has been proven there is less turn over and training involved when obviously your employees are happy with what they make. While I can’t give an exact royalty / rent / fees amount, I will tell you it is between 13 and 18% gross.
    I own one location and I am in the process of securing a second location. If you have some business sense ( I would recommend some college courses at minimum for business) , a fair amount of capital for start up, and the drive to succeed and have the highest dedication for customer service you can be extremely lucrative.

  43. @David, thanks for the clarification. On the $375-$400k net, what revenues is that based on, around $2M?

  44. 44. David

    @FrugalTrader

    That was based on approximately 2.4 million in gross revenue. I forecast an increase of about 8-12% gross for 2013 just based on the numbers thus far. I could be wrong, but let’s hope not :)

  45. 45. SST

    Maxed out:
    $400k net on $2.4 million = 16.5% yield.
    16.5% x 12% gross increase = +2% return.

    Quick-n-dirty calculations based on 10% gross growth
    5-year contract = ~100% total return; 20% annual yield.

    To be laying out $500,000 and only getting a “considerably higher” 20% annual return seems weak. Based on this alone I wouldn’t touch a Timmies (even more so now that their “doughnuts” are a frozen product).

    One only needs to examine FT’s Net Worth reports to see how you can gain a lot more doing a lot less: RRSP +34%/yr, Non-Reg +149%/yr, Over-all NW +29%/yr.

    The big difference is between 16% cash-flow and 29% paper gains.

    And what is the re-sale valuation of TH franchises? Any data on this?

    If you put the $500,000 buy-in costs into FT’s Non-Reg fund, you could sell in five years for $4 million. Owning a Timmies would get you $2 million over the same period, but could you sell your franchise for another $2 million? That would be trying to sell a 60% annual capital gain on the back of a 10% gross growth.

    You could have also plunked that half-mill into THI stock.
    Gains @ 15.5%/yr + 1% dividend = 16.5% annual yield (sound familiar?) but without all the work.
    As well, the dividend has increased 32%/yr, triple that of brick-&-mortar gross growth.

    Not to mention TH is now basically “owned” by US bully hedge funds.

    I’m no fan of the general stock market, but there are some things which are even worse “investments”.

  46. 46. David

    @SST

    Doing some quick calculations based on today’s numbers, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Care to be my financial advisor? ;) I understand there is a lot of risk, but I haven’t lost anything, and even if I was to sell today, I would still be earning a minimum 3-4X return on my initial investment. I have owned this one for 7 years so I have the option of who I would sell it to if I ever were to.

  47. 47. SST

    David — I didn’t address risk, per se. When it comes to owning a TH franchise there most likely is not that much risk (ie. bankruptcy). I was merely addressing different rates of return on different investments.

    Other questions also arise:
    As per the initial article, only $200,000 of the initial $500,000 is needed in cash to purchase a franchise; the rest (60%) can come from the form of a loan.

    How does paying interest on 60% of your investment affect your net income? The loan could be paid down fairly quickly if a franchise had sales “considerably higher” than the norm, as in your case. If not? An owner could, for example, have a reduced annual profit of 3% due to loan repayments.

    If your 16.5% is is on the high end, an average franchise might take in 12%(?)…maybe 9% if leveraged…? I can only guess without concrete numbers to work with.

    As I stated, the single biggest factor is your cash-flow vs. un-realized gains. I’m a big supporter of getting as close to the profit as possible, of which you are a prime example. Chapèu.

    p.s. — I’m not licensed to be a financial advisor. All my advice is free…and you get what you pay for. ;)

  48. 48. happyfeet

    His roi is 75% not 20%.

    Also i would not expect more than 8% from stocks given valuations.

    His tim s franchise clobbers the market.

  49. 49. Raza

    Hi All,
    As I am interested to buy TH in Vancouver, BC. Can anybody guide me what are the pre-requisite that I have to be considered and what are primary pillars which need to be focus before signing the contract. Any idea, If I will go for re-sale franchise that would might help me to generate reasonable amount of profit with reasonable efforts.

    Look forward for your help regarding above queries and keep in mind that I am not resident of BC therefore this deal ultimately going to make my PR as well. So your advice will help me to understand the complexity, nature and main ball of game for future step.

  50. 50. OakvilleTimmy

    This is an interesting topic with so many meaningful replies. From my reading, if someone has moderate risk tolerance level, and don’t need to get a big loan to run this franchise (becos you will not under too much pressure to keep running for 5 yrs), 300k cash might be a good start point with adequate time commitment to generate a reasonable profit (10-12%? :))

  51. 51. Richard

    Hi I’m new to Canada and have heard a lot of buzz about Tim Horton’s. In fact I even heard its opening in Kuwait where i came from and has already opened in Oman. Dubai has several I believe.

    Wanted to know the average expected waiting period to own one. I have 500k start up capital, International medical grad (foreign family physician) 28 years old and little business background?! (My dad owns two spas)
    Spouse has the same background but no biz experience.

    I reside in Barrie Ontario but am willing to relocate.

  52. 53. Petkn

    Joesnapple:; 978k would that be profit or gross?

  53. 54. J.

    David, thanks for kindly sharing your input. I’m in the application for a Tim Horton’s. I’d love to ask you some questions via email if that’s possible. Business returns are more real than Stock market investments, IMO, and I’m a stock investor for 10 years and worked in NYC.

  54. 55. Stu

    Hello, I have the business skills and finances to invest in a tim franchise (or two). My question is, how long does it typically take once you have made a request for a franchise and it materializing? Any input would be great. Thank you

  55. 56. JTG

    @David or any other THF owners.

    Is the $400k or average $256k after you pay yourself salary or before?

    I mean if the $256k is take home and you are already paying yourself $100k-150k salary. That makes a huge difference in the analysis

  56. 57. David

    @JAG,

    That would be after all overhead is covered including my salary.

    If you have any further questions feel free to ask.

  57. 58. David

    JTG** sorry auto correct.

  58. 59. Loic

    @David

    I have been looking for a TH franchisee to talk to.
    I live in Brampton, would you mind to connect with me to talk about TH franchise plz?

    Thanks,

    Loic

  59. 60. David

    @Loic

    Sure, I wouldn’t mind answering some questions,
    I don’t know how comfortable I am about leaving my email on a public forum though unless we just communicate on here, let me know.

  60. 61. Loic

    Hi David,

    I shared my email but it is awaiting for moderation…
    In the meantime, I was curious to know how long is the process to be chosen as a franchisee please.

    Thanks,

    Loic

  61. 62. kevin

    Hello, this is to SST.
    I’ve really enjoyed your analysis on David Franchise!
    I’m looking to get into the “SUBWAY SUB” franchise with the next 2yrs.
    I’ve done my basic preliminary reserch on it.
    However I’m in need of much more detailed info. like you’ve supplied to DAVIDS franchise.

    looking to get subway sub franchise worth about $300.000.
    What can I expect in return, with that investment, realistically!
    Thank You

  62. 63. SST

    @kevin: thanks, but not much analysis can be done with only one piece of data — purchase price. Please seek professional financial counsel.

  63. 64. kevin

    Its a good advise.
    Thanx!

  64. 65. jntn

    Hi everyone my question is for David or anyone who knows the answer i would like to know how much longer is the waiting list and how many interviews you had with the TDL group before you can finalize everyting and open the restaurant .

    Thank you.

  65. 66. SST

    @David — how does the recent sale effect your business, if at all?

    Interesting that Timmy’s started off as a private company, went public, and has now been brought back into the folds of private equity.

    R.I.P. to yet another Canadian cum Brazilian icon.

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